hb``d`````Z x=kqe;vO|qTix?#)*Q:(T&M)%tcwR:84Fw+6rb4xgv_(X:~w$3~e_8Zb8 gv%_?=B3: Q }}0w,MbXr` ?12)_rO dh0 +f%P5?#8o/^sob\v &;bt/.qh0ge@rd~'IJZp@hQC&Q#=_&nD1a~%7'rQK& If you join somewhere, you better like the place you're joining I think. Members have access once per month during the weekday. Two championship golf courses The Sunset and The Sunrise both designed by Tom Fazio and Arthur Hills. Membership dues are $50,000 per year. CREATE AN ACCOUNT, Get an email the instant your dream home hits the market with your MyLogin account. Eastpointe is offering Summer Membership. Gorgeous, distinct venues and a world-class staff guaranteed to make your event unforgettable. hbbbd`b``3,n0 25 Plus $100 for HOA access fee (2 barcodes for gate access). Membership Information. Members of the Jordan family are currently exempt from the clubs resident full golf rate. If you're looking for a luxurious country club experience, Jupiter Country Club is the perfect place for you. The club has a wide variety of gracious homes from villa style condos to charming cottages, patio homes to grand estates available for ownership. I called their membership office on Saturday, and they confirmed that they would not be doing summer memberships this year. The Club is situated in the heart of the Jupiter/Tequesta area, just north of the Palm Beaches in one of the most desirable areas in the nation for golf. There are also discounts available for members who wish to use the clubs golf course. $1800 individual membership with $500 unlimited cart fee or $25 per round. Sandscapes are also a challenge for golfers, especially the newbie ones. Home; Club Comparison. Hi everyone, just curious if anyone is aware of any clubs in the Jupiter area planning on offering a Summer membership for the 2021 year. Country clubs may appear charming and nostalgic to some people, but the younger generation prefers experiences that are relevant to their lives and lifestyle preferences. mp 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos. Seems a bit much . 0000989566 00000 n The first course design was named the Hills layout and was followed by a remodeled Village course that was finished around the year 1978. PGA National Members Club. New Member Initiation Fee: $150 bag storage (optional) $25 handicap service (optional) 1 pre-round warm-up bucket. Are you inquiring about membership rates for the Jupiter Island Club, or about the club itself? Cole_Williams11 There are two world-class golf courses, 16 tennis courts, and three swimming pools. $2500, unlimited carts and green fees. The Meadows Country Club Sarasota, Florida. Medal at Old Trail . Opens in new window I am extremely pleased with the way the golf course at Jupiter Country Club turned out and, in fact, it gets better every time I play it. In my area, the full golf initiation fee ranges from $5K to $80K. Golf membership $150,000*. Nestled in the heart of Jupiter, Florida, this private club offers its members a world-class golf course, state-of-the-art tennis facilities, and a beautiful clubhouse. That's what makes the Club so unique. Cart fee is $32 plus tax with no dining minimum. Email: info@jonathanslanding.com . Aberdeen Golf & Country Club 8251 Aberdeen Drive Boynton Beach, FL 33472 561-738-4903 Membership Required? 0000755990 00000 n Show All. You cannot paste images directly. FlashinLeather, February 8, 2019 in Florida. With a brand-new Members Clubhouse featuring chef-inspired dining outlets and lifestyle-oriented programming designed for each member of the family there's never been a better time to enjoy all PGA National Members Club has to offer. Jupiter, FL Homes for sale in Tequesta Country Club Community, Tequesta, FL have a median listing home price of $1,250,000. Jupiter Country Club Fees 2018-2019 All memberships include a primary member, secondary member and any dependent under the age of 23. Some of the best greens around and definitely one of the best in the summer as they can punch/airate 9 holes at a time and always have 18 fresh. This includes access to the clubs many facilities, such as the pool, tennis courts, and fitness center. Winston Trails has a 19 month membership starting April 1st for $4399 single, inclusive of free carts and free range balls. The community has its own on-site realtor in Admirals Cove Realty, which is responsible for approximately 80% of all property sales in Admirals Cove. Full access to all tennis, pickleball, bocce, basketball, wellness, swimming, children's play area and dining and social facilities at the Club. The Jupiter Island Club is one of the most prestigious and well-known private clubs in the world. The golf course is a Greg Norman design. The Jupiter Country Club is a private golf club located in Jupiter, Florida. Minimum 80% of the equity membership fee to be returned to member when the membership is sold. Echo is unique in real estate in that our company pays for all marketing, advertising, and all support which is handled in-house. The proximity to Palm Beach International Airport (PBIA) makes the PGA Boulevard golf courses and country club homes the center of attraction for many golf lovers. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! 0000001477 00000 n 0000450683 00000 n Golf privileges are available after 12 pm during season (November-April) and unlimited access during the summer months (May-October.) Hey! I understand that with COVID not as many clubs may be offering, but any information is appreciated, thanks! After-Hours Emergency: 561-203-7910. View exclusive Market Reports & Stats on your South Florida Community. Harbour Ridge not offering. Started 42 minutes ago, By Our hotels rooms are large and comfortable, and our staff is gracious, making our guests feel at ease. While the exact cost of the initiation fee is unknown, its estimated to be about $200,000. 16613 Hidden Cove Dr, Jupiter FL, is a Single Family home that contains 2811 sq ft and was built in 1986.It contains 3 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms.This home last sold for $1,650,000 in June 2022. Property Manager: Christine DiRenzo Email: cdirenzo@campbellproperty.com Campbell Property Management After-Hours Emergency: 561-203-7910. contact. The Trump National Golf Club Jupiter, a 7,242-yard (6,622-meter) course designed by Jack Nicklaus, is a private golf club in Jupiter, Florida. Membership at Jupiter Country Club Welcome to West Jupiter's full-service country club community. January 23, 2021. 111 Jupiter Hills, a few miles south, Hobe Sound G.C., one of Joe Lee's finest, just a few miles closer, and Greg Norman's Medalist right next . <<369ADCC4DEE80E49B2DAD70CDEE3ECA2>]/Prev 994805/XRefStm 1477>> Plus, special offerings at more than 1,000 hotels, resorts and entertainment venues. For inquiries or additional information, please call Kathy Gibson at 561.626.8969 or email: kgibson@thebearsclub.com . Two years ago I did Lost City. When you join, you will most likely be required to pay a lower initiation fee. Full access to all golf, tennis, pickleball, bocce, basketball, wellness, swimming, children's play area and dining and social facilities at the Club. Ideally located in the heart of Palm Beach Gardens just a quick ride from Palm Beach International Airport (PBIA). / You'll enjoy access to our beautiful 18-hole Greg Norman Signature championship golf course, tennis, wellness and swimming facilities and a host of dining environments for every occasion. NOW AVAILABLE: GolfWRX G/Fore Hats and Holderness & Bourne Polos! xref It is critical to select a country club that provides access to a variety of activities that appeal to all members of your family. East Point Country Club - March 15 through October 15. #countryclub #countryclubcommunity #equitymembership NEWSLETTER. INTERMEDIATE GOLF FULL GOLF: $5,000 Initiation Fee: $350 Monthly Dues: $12,500 Initiation Fee: $750 Monthly Dues: $25,000 Initiation Fee: $1,100 Monthly Dues Unlimited access to the Fitness Center, Children's Play Area, Spa: 2020, 2021 and 2023 Echo Fine Properties, All Rights Reserved. Enjoy the benefits of unlimited golf play out of season from May 1st to October 31st. 4. Old Palm Golf Club is highly acclaimed for its extraordinary golfing experience residents, players and guests enjoy each time they play. How it Works; Interactive Map; Golf Clubs & Residences. 0000009463 00000 n 0000003524 00000 n Oops, there was an error sending your message. The Jupiter Waterfront Inn is a waterfront hotel located on the Intracoastal Waterway on Jupiter Island, giving you access to the Nature Conservancys hiking trails and nature trails. Campbell Property Management Mayacoo- May 1 through October 31 - $1,500 first time, $2,400 second time. Credit reports can assist you in determining whether a person has a delinquent or criminal record that would prevent them from joining a club. Once youre a member, youll have access to all of our great amenities and benefits! It's not cheap. 0000007320 00000 n At Jupiter Country Club, live life to the fullest! *) May change at any time. %%EOF 0000007870 00000 n 0000707390 00000 n If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Available: May 1, 2020 until October 31, 2020 Initiation Cost: $495 Cart Fee: 18 Holes $23 | 9 Holes $16 Guest Fee: $25 Additional Details: 2020 SUMMER GOLF MEMBERSHIP $495 Two complimentary rounds of afternoon golf on the Meadows Course in November with an initiation fees for a social membership start at $100,000, while initiation fees for a golf membership start at $250,000. Annual dues for a social membership are $12,500, while annual dues for a golf membership are $30,000. According to The Golf Life Agent, which breaks down prices for both Medalist Golf Club and homes in Medalist Village, the initiation fee for a membership at Medalist Golf Club is . 0000450605 00000 n GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By $1500 plus $30 per round for cart. MLS # RX-10857018 Divided by the roughly 300 member families, the $60 million asking price works out to about $200,000 each. 561-827-2952 Buy or Sell Florida Country Club Homes. The club has been home to many famous members over the years, including Tiger Woods, Ernie Els, and Phil Mickelson. She was in close communication with With our Home ECHOnomics Guarantee of 57 promises to make sure everything that is supposed to happen, happens, you'll have the best in your corner. This website consists of 5 separate MLS feeds, giving 100% accuracy ranging from Miami to Fort Lauderdale to Palm Beach to Martin County. In addition, full club members are required to pay $589.00 per month as an individual resident. Is anyone aware of which clubs in the Palm Beach County area will be offering memberships this year? The National Golf Club is a revolutionary private club that brings together many of the nation's top golf properties to provide you with the ultimate in membership privileges. Abacoa Golf Club reserves the right to pair players together. trailer Miami Lyxiga Condo Lgenheter o Hus Till Salu, Jupiter Florida Real Estate Broker Susanna Grubb. Non-resident memberships at Monterey Country Club cost $9,240 per year and $8,420 for a family membership. Email: cdirenzo@campbellproperty.com 2020 - 2021 Membership Fees. Golf membership $140,000*. You will be expected to pay an initial fee of $125,000 to join Jupiter Hills Golf Club, followed by annual dues of around $17,500 to enjoy the full benefits of the membership. % Green fees are covered as part of membership, but you are required to pay cart fees. Our Sports Membership offers the defined family unit unlimited use of racquet sports, aquatics, fitness, spa, salon, dining, and social facilities of the Club. Jupiter Island Club, located on Jupiter Island, has long been regarded as one of the most exclusive winter resorts in the country, with members families of the Fords, duPonts, Searles, Mellons, and (Howard) Johnsons among its members. Trial/ Seasonal/ Lessee Membership Available. With COVID, PGA PASS may be the way to go this summer:https://www.sfpgagolf.com/golfpass/. You'll enjoy access to our beautiful 18-hole Greg Norman Signature championship golf course, tennis, wellness and swimming facilities and a host of dining . 27 holes (9 closed for maintenance). Members of the club state that among the most difficult holes of the course are the 8th, 9th, 13th, and 17th. 250 Bear's Club Drive, Jupiter, FL 33477. Hobe sound re-did their course and bumped their summer membership from 1200 to 2800 plus $800 initiation and $800 food and bev min, plus $25 monthly capital contribution. May 15-Oct 15 (May 1 start date if you pay by March 31) $1,900 individual, $2,100 family. N/A. Contact us directly with your specific needs to see if we have a match. Mission Statement. Phone: 561-747-7600 . Find those here. Jupiter Country Club HOA Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. How much is Boca Raton membership? N/A *Disclaimer: Club prices, fees and descriptions are subject to change . 33478 Three championship golf courses the East, North and South courses designed by Dick Wilson, Joe Lee and Gene Bates. Seems like a pretty solid deal. Each agent is hand selected to join us for their knowledge of the area including golf club communities, gated communities, equestrian and ranch estates, condominiums, and waterfront and boating estates. Anyone looking for an ultra-luxury golf club in Florida to call their dream home should consider the beautiful Old Palm Golf Club homes for sale overlooking the Raymond Floyd challenging 19-hole championship golf course with an old-world charm Addison Mizner-inspired club house and luxury amenities. Upload or insert images from URL. His job was later on continued by Tom Fazio, his nephew, that restored Jupiter Hills to their first, original design. New Member Initiation Fee - $500.00 * Membership runs one year from date of enrollment * Members pay $25 cart fee per round; Member Benefits. To learn more about each individual club, click on the individual country club link or feel free to call us at 561.500.3246. If you were a Summer Member there once previously, the cost is $2400. The communities offer stunning model homes and custom designed garden view or waterfront homes overlooking lakes, fountains, manicured golf courses and landscapes lined with trees and tropical fauna sought after by seasonal residents and year around home owners alike. William Ford and Bob Hope were two of the people that really believed in the need for a great golf course around the southeast region of Florida. My own club I would describe as upper middle of the pack locally. Annual membership dues range between $10,000 and $15,000 USD. Former President Donald Trump's golf club in West Palm Beach is more than doubling its initiation fee, according to members who say a surge in interest means the price is going up to $350,000. You may be able to negotiate more generously if the club is actively recruiting members. May 15-Oct 15 (May 1 start date if you pay by March 31) $1,900 individual, $2,100 family. Jupiter Country Club The area's premier private club. 16823 Captain Kirle Dr. Jupiter, FL 33477. You will be expected to pay an initial fee of $125,000 to join Jupiter Hills Golf Club, followed by annual dues of around $17,500 to enjoy the full benefits of the membership. Members enjoy access to every world-class . Homes for Sale in Jupiter Country Club. In case anyone was wondering Eastpointe will not be doing a summer membership this year (they have a waitlist right now for members 50+ deep, and a rep confirmed it to me). please contact our Director of Membership Services today. Determine your home's estimated value based on recent home sales in your area. Mayacoo is offering the Summer Membership at $1500 from May 1 to Oct 31. We earn a commission for every product bought through our website. . The club features an award-winning 18-hole golf course and other country club amenities for every member of the family. 10% off Food and Drink; 10% off at golf shop; Free GHIN Handicap enrollment and service; 1 Free pre-round warm-up bucket of balls; 30 day advanced online tee time reservations Banyan Cay is not offering summer memberships this year. There is not a blade of grass out of place, and the clubhouse/locker room is the icing on the cake to a pristine facility. Daily Hours: Pro Shop: 7am-5:30pm | Golf: 7am-Sunset. Im not entirely sure what you are asking. Sign up for our NEWSLETTER below to keep you informed of . The best way to locate golf clubs within the ClubCorp network is to use the club finder already . Eastpointe Country Club is a lively community and club that has been enriching the lives of our members and residents for nearly 50 years. 0000003487 00000 n Greg Norman. On Mondays, you can play the course on Palm Beach island. 0000009881 00000 n Same for Bear Lakes. %PDF-1.4 % Boca Lago is $1650 for a single and $1900 for family + cart fee, which was $25 last summer. ?hx o>0p9j]mgjOU:\1#'nw`C%^& Z6vvmE+@bPq AD"WpY[ @q # aMXqsKQQ>-j ~Z}P !-MEabUNaK n! *f4Kv +0" (j !Diu)@(4}a1-`EF D Well then send you an email with further instructions on how to complete the process. 185 0 obj <>stream For Sale - 18081 SE Country Club Dr #6, Jupiter, FL - $200,000. Members may upgrade to XLife benefits in the area and nationwide. Boca Resort members will pay $45,000 in addition to their annual membership fee. FROM $107 (USD) ORLANDO, FL | Enjoy 2 nights' accommodation at Tuscana Resort Orlando and 3 rounds of golf at Disney's Magnolia Golf Course, Palm Golf Course and Lake Buena Vista Golf Course. 0000001219 00000 n The PGA has produced many golf legends who choose to call Palm Beach Gardens Florida home. Even after he retired, George stayed close to this location and tried to constantly evolve the landscape surrounding the club to his desires. Browse 12 Homes for Sale in Jupiter Country Club Jupiter with an average sale price of $1,375,000 at $564/SqFt. For more information or inquires, please contact . The club is unknown to anyone, but whether it exists or not, it is a fascinating topic for fans of Southern Charm to explore. 2023 Invited (ClubCorp) All Rights Reserved. 0000700020 00000 n Do you know if Mayacoo or Eastepoint include any reciprocals ? $1500 no cart fees. List has been updated. In the United States, there are fewer clubs. The last two years I have been at Lost City Golf Club, private 27 holes, no tee times, unlimited with no cart fees May 1 thru Oct 31 $2500. Club Membership, $5000 initiation fee and $299 monthly dues. B8. 0000004359 00000 n At Frenchman's Reserve Country Club, benefit from resort style living, combined with family friendly warmth. 0000009643 00000 n Distinguished Club Of Florida Discover a sun-soaked secluded oasis, a community of families and friends who share a love of nature, of active living, and of the finer things in life. 0000979416 00000 n Jordan's course is named The Grove XXIII, with the Roman numeral 23 a nod . The 2,665 sq. The monthly dues range from $300 - $700. $5000 credit towards initiation if you become a member in . It's named The Grove XXIII. The use of and access to the facilities provided at Jupiter Country Club are governed by the terms and Learn More. Intermediate Membership, $9000 initiation fee and $515 monthly dues. Membership is by invitation only and is limited to 750 families. Constructed between 2007 and 2016 by Toll Brothers, a renowned South Florida Builder, these magnificent properties are available in ten different models, ranging from two to six bedrooms . You might also like our articles about the cost of membership at the Riviera Country Club and Bel Air Country Club. One of the rules that you will have to remember is that this club will prohibit people from changing their shoes in the parking lot. The Jupiter Country Club is another great Toll Brothers community, with the clubhouse and amenities associated with all of their properties. I'm about an 9 cap right now. Golf membership $130,000*. I am still on the hunt for a club that will. If you want to pay in advance for the initiation fee, you can opt for the Deferred Payment Plan. Take our step by step quiz to find a best matching community for you*. MEMBERSHIP BENEFITS AND CLASSIFICATIONS. Family: $9,500 + $1,000 Yearly F&B Minimum. 1 561-743-9100, Contact form for technical problems modal. A Sports Member is restricted to the use of the golf course 4 times per month (with a maximum of 2 times on the East) - in season from November 1st to April 30th. Jupiter Florida real estate. According to Frank Vain, president of the St. Louis Golf and Country Club, over 5,000 member-owned full-service golf and country clubs were in operation in the mid-to-late 1990s. 0000019565 00000 n Extended family and guests are welcome, by the invitation of community residents. Powered by Neutrino, Inc. Joining Jupiter Hills is easy! There are 12 active homes for sale in Tequesta Country Club Community, Tequesta, FL. All property owners in Jupiter Country Club are required to purchase a membership. The three options available are: Full Membership, $18,500 initiation fee and $711 monthly dues. and they are willing to pay the additional costs of a mandatory membership." Country club . Office: 772-419-5358 Email: LSaundry@marinersands.com. Looking for Southern Palm Beach County Clubs? 0000002941 00000 n Breathtakingly beautiful sunsets overlooking the golf course, lakes, wildlife and custom estates. 33478 Mayacoo is offering the Summer Membership at $1500 from May 1 to Oct 31. Sports Members have limited use of the golf facilities from November 1 through April 30 upon payment of greens and carts fees and unlimited use of the golf facilities upon payment of cart fees throughout the off-season. Frenchman's Creek Beach & Country Club. If you add in storage and golf cart fees, the cost of this service could easily rise to $1000 per month. %PDF-1.4 According to the Chicago Tribune, Jupiter Island Club, which is located on Jupiter Island, Florida, "is probably the largest and most expensive private club in the world.". No matter what your decision, these clubs are all like adult camps. LOG IN With a spectacular 18-hole Greg Norman Signature Golf Course, the challenge is exhilarating. 0000015740 00000 n However, I never tried their $14 hot dog. Jupiter Country Club, Jupiter, Florida; Granite Bay Golf Club, Granite Bay, California; Brier Creek Country Club, Raleigh, North Carolina; Bay Oaks Country Club . Can play 1 round a month outside of summer months. *Initiation Fee reduced by $3,500 for new home purchasers- limited time only. Marcie admitted in a confessional that Jupiter Island Club was a very exclusive club with only wealthy members who had to leave a legacy behind. For a family of four, the monthly fee is only $85. In only 30 seconds you will have full access to property, community info and SOLD data you can't get anywhere else. Discovery the luxury lifestyle that awaits at Jupiter Country Club. Mirasol Country Club homes were built by several builders overlooking the golf courses and newly remodeled luxury clubhouse, resort style pools and spa services. Jupiter Hills, a few minutes south of the Medalist, will ask a new member to come up with $134,000 and annual dues of $7,700. Clubhouse still old and dated. P. 561.626.2327. They did offer a summer membership last year did anyone join it? Turtle Creek - May 15 - October 15 - $3,500. CALL US WITH QUESTIONS (561)827-2952, We list, market and sell Florida homes for sale in Trial/ Seasonal/ Lessee Membership Available. NO recips. The 5% charge for amortization is imposed. If one catches your eye, feel free to utilize the contact form and you can connect with the club's membership director who will send you up-to-date information about the club and membership programs. Which Palm Beach Florida Golf Club is best for you? Tequesta Country Club has the reputation of being one of the friendliest clubs in the area. North Palm Beach County Country Club Comparison, South Palm Beach County Country Club Comparison, List With Echo The Home ECHOnomics Guarantee. A challenging and fun design that rewards great drives, and makes you play different shots off the tee. Find those here. Full access to all tennis, pickleball, bocce, basketball, wellness, swimming, children's play area and dining and social facilities at the Club. Paste as plain text instead, Wherever you go, your membership goes with you. To ensure that an applicant has the funds to cover dues and membership fees, a club may also examine their financial situation. Rentals in Jupiter FL. { ]jq^5 b@KL` *Disclaimer: Club prices, fees and descriptions are subject to change and errors, 2419 N Commercial Blvd Suite 101 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308, All Rights Reserved | The Gold Life Agent, 3696 N Federal Hwy, Fort Lauderdale, FL, United States. Just wanted to say thank you so much for helping find the house, making time for us immediately when we called and really being on top of David and I would like to personally thank you for your outstanding assistance in selling our Steeplechase Palm Beach Gardens investment/rental Lenore and David Goldsholle - Steeplechase. 0000450930 00000 n The entry fee is $130,000, and annual fees are nine grand. Sway, located at our Grand Clubhouse, is your secluded sanctuary to relax after a round of golf, sit by the fire pit, enjoy a bocce game, tell stories and gather for intimate dinners. Annual DuesFull Golf$300,00 75% refundable $28,400 Resident Full GolfN/A$8,063 Individual $9,880 Family Full GolfN/A$6,096 Individual $6,896 Family SportsN/A$6,500. endstream endobj 142 0 obj <>/Metadata 4 0 R/Pages 3 0 R/StructTreeRoot 6 0 R/Type/Catalog/ViewerPreferences<>>> endobj 143 0 obj >/PageWidthList<0 612.0>>>>>>/Resources<>/ExtGState<>/Font<>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text/ImageC/ImageI]/XObject<>>>/Rotate 0/StructParents 0/TrimBox[0.0 0.0 612.0 792.0]/Type/Page>> endobj 144 0 obj <> endobj 145 0 obj [/ICCBased 156 0 R] endobj 146 0 obj [/Indexed/DeviceRGB 1 157 0 R] endobj 147 0 obj <>stream Nice driving range and you get access to the pool/gym. Jupiter Country Club Championship golf course designed by Jupiter Island resident Australian golf legend Greg Norman. Golf. Our casual, relaxing atmosphere makes it the perfect place to kick back, and a buzzing social schedule provides unique opportunities to build lasting relationships with fellow Members at any age. This particular golf club was opened in the year 1969. 0000763715 00000 n Membership is currently. The club membership is only limited to 400 individuals at the same time and, even though there is no waiting list you can add your name to when a spot opens it will come down to who can pay the fees upfront first.
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